The research that led John Safran to a cardiologist’s operating table

DEATH

Your friend and former radio co-host Father Bob Maguire died not that long ago. What was it like losing someone you’ve worked with for so long? Jarring. But then it shouldn’t have been surprising as he was old – even for an old person. When I was writing Puff Piece, I went to him for advice on the moral questions, such as “Do Philip Morris employees go to hell?” But the thing I learnt from him is that people who need help – who are disadvantaged, screwed over – are as likely to be a jerk as anyone else. He used to say, “You don’t have to like people to love them. There are people who need help.”

You’re Jewish; Father Bob was Catholic. You’ve engaged with and interrogated so many religions in your work. When it comes to death – and what happens afterwards – who’s got it right? You’ll be surprised to know I don’t know. Whatever the two options are – an afterlife or rotting in the ground – I reckon there’s a third thing we can’t even conceive of.

How would you like to die? Straight away. I could do a stunt – something outrageous – but there’s so much content out there these days you could go unnoticed, then it’d just be embarrassing. I don’t want people to think, “Oh, cringe! I can’t believe John did that. What a cringe death!”

If you were to die today, what would you regret not having done? You always wish you were further along in your book. It would be such an awkward conversation, [publishers] Penguin trying to work out how they’d get back the advance. I’d regret that I’d put them in a spot.

If you were to die today, what would you be most proud of having done? When I was younger, I was really attracted to art and storytelling that was a bit counter-cultural but sort of fun. And I’ve ended up doing that.

POLITICS

In 2017, you published a book called Depends What You Mean by Extremist. Is it fair to say extremism is now no longer exclusively on the fringes in Australia? It’s true. When I went to hang out with the Ku Klux Klan, people couldn’t believe there were still these costumed fascists. When I started researching Depends What You Mean by Extremist, I had no idea there was going to be this revival. I was happy to write about the eight guys who, once a year, turn up at a pub to celebrate Adolf Hitler’s birthday. But this was the backdrop to Donald Trump announcing he was going to run for US president and Pauline Hanson making a comeback. Suddenly, I was chasing a thing that was growing and growing.

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How is Australia faring compared to the rest of the world when it comes to far-right extremism? Two things can be true at once. Like, most people aren’t extremists; on the other hand, it doesn’t take many highly motivated people. Some of the most dangerous people are mentally ill and they’re being taken advantage of by others who are less mentally ill, but more racist.

What makes you proud of Australia? You’re allowed to be funny – generally speaking – so that’s kind of cool.

What makes you cringe about Australia? Everyone’s a bit of a hypocritical, easily wounded whiner. You’ll have a politician feeling wounded because someone’s made fun of them. And it’s like, “You’re a politician. You’ve said lots of nasty things; that means people get to say nasty things to you.” Everyone’s a hypocritical whiner. Probably me included.

John Safran co-hosts Who the Bloody Hell Are We? with Cal Wilson and Adam Liaw, on SBS from July 19.

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