People say I didn’t get enough time… I’m the last driver who has to take the vehicle to the station: Uttarakhand CM Pushkar Singh Dhami

Harikishan Sharma: Uttarakhand has elected four Vidhan Sabhas from 2000 and, in every election, it has changed the government in power. How will you buck this trend?
Earlier there was another trend too — ever since the state was formed, whoever formed the government in the state, didn’t win in Parliament elections and vice-versa. Whether it was in 2004 or 2009, this was the trend but it changed once Narendra Modi became Prime Minister of the country. There was a Congress government in Uttarakhand in 2014 and all the five Lok Sabha seats were won by the BJP. In 2019, it won the five seats again. Since Modiji became the PM, the entire country’s trend changed too. If you see, earlier, we never used to form the government in Assam, but now we have formed it twice. We never used to form a government in Haryana, we have done it twice. In UP, we could not form a government since 1991 but we did that in 2017 and will be doing it again in 2022, according to all opinion polls. We are confident we will form a government in Uttarakhand and that too with a huge majority.

Liz Mathew: Uttarakhand’s BJP unit is famous or infamous for internal divisions. How do you see this and how will you overcome it? What are you doing to keep the party together?
Our party is united and there are no differences. Maybe there are some small differences but we are united and fighting the elections together. We have announced our candidates, the tickets have been given, our booth-level (candidates) and panna pramukh have been announced. Our work has started. We have always given due respect to everyone. We are all working together. Our party will form a government and with a huge margin.

Liz Mathew: The older, senior leaders in the party are unhappy that they are not getting due respect. How will you handle this in ticket distribution and campaigning?
There’s nothing like that, we have given respect to all senior leaders. Did someone tell you that they haven’t been given respect? Give me one name and I will tell you how much the party has paid respect to them.

Liz Mathew: You and the previous CM Trivendra Singh Rawat had to repeal the Char Dham Devasthanam Board due to the VHP’s demand. You have to deal with more hardliners in your support base in Uttarakhand, when compared to other states. Ahead of the elections, have you had any discussions with the VHP?
That issue was not related to politics. The opposition to the Char Dham Devasthanam Board was not from one section of the society; there was opposition from teerth purohits, people from the panda samaj, Rawals, priests from that area. We had formed a committee under the chairmanship of our senior leader Manohar Kant Dhyani that had worked for three months. The committee submitted its report and then we created a subcommittee of the mantri mandal, which also gave its report. Then we took a decision to repeal the board. There’s no question of politics there. Other people work for votes, we didn’t work for votes. We respected everyone’s sentiments and based our decision on the committee report.

Liz Mathew: What do you have to say on statements by hardliners such as Yati Narsinghanand?
He talked about me, too, but I had no role in it. The law will take its course, no one can interfere with the law.

Liz Mathew: Former CM Trivendra Singh Rawat is siding with the dissenters and even withdrew his nomination. What do you have to say on it?
There’s no issue of unhappiness. He was the CM for four years and is a senior leader. There’s no question of unhappiness.

Liz Mathew: But why did he withdraw his nomination?
He himself said that he will work and campaign to help the party win the state. He will go to every area. Our party is big and there’s no unhappiness.

Avaneesh Mishra: There’s an accusation that the delay in taking action in the dharm sansad issue in Haridwar and then the taking of action were both done after considering political gains and losses.
The law is equal for everyone and everything followed the course of law. There’s no controversy.

Avaneesh Mishra: Will you accept that there was delay in taking action?
As and when we received information, the administration did its work.

Devyani Onial: Employment is a big issue for the entire country but specially in Uttarakhand where traditionally people have migrated in search of work, leaving behind ‘ghost’ villages. What measures are you taking to generate employment?
First, we are working to encourage self-help groups so that along with themselves, they can provide employment to others as well. We are also thinking of simplifying and expanding the ongoing Homestay yojana. We are encouraging tourism, we have started bringing down prices of heliservices; we have lowered the VAT on Aviation Turbine Fuel from 20 per cent to two per cent. We are also talking of opening wellness centres in Kumaon mandal, Garhwal Mandal Vikas Nigam, and such places. To curb migration and provide work to people where they live, we started an idea series called Bodhisattva, where we invited people from NITI Aayog, scientists, advisors to the Government of India, educationists from the state, environmentalists and sociologists. We are creating a road map for the next 10 years.

Harikishan Sharma: According to the Periodic Labour Force Survey, the unemployment rate of Uttarakhand is higher than the national average. In the last year, we saw that even when the average national unemployment rate dropped a little, it increased in Uttarakhand. It seems that the work the government is doing is not percolating down to the grassroots.
We had started the work but then there was a lockdown. Therefore, a lot of work that was supposed to happen didn’t happen. But the work will definitely be done and we have a long-term vision.

Vandita Mishra: On the dharm sansad issue, you talked about the law taking its own course. But there’s also the question of moral and political responsibility. You are the CM of the state, don’t you think you should have said something on such talk that vitiates the atmosphere and makes it difficult for people to live together?
It was not an official event nor had they asked us anything. Neither did we sponsor the event nor did we invite them. When action was taken, they thought it was taken by the government and when action was not taken, people thought the government had not done anything. There was no role of the government. When the matter came before the law, the law followed its course.

Vandita Mishra: You didn’t think there was a need to make a political statement?
It’s not an issue related to us, so why would we give a statement?

Aakash Joshi: Since the formation of Uttarakhand, there has been an accusation that there’s more focus on the Terai region, the plain regions, while the state was created for the hills. If you win, will Gairsain be made the capital?
We have already made Gairsain the summer capital and it is our priority. Gairsain is the centre of our sentiment. It’s at the heart of the state and the Uttarakhand movement. The people have connections to Gairsain. We will develop it in the form of a capital.

Aakash Joshi: Your popularity has been quite high in the opinion polls. But there’s a complaint from the ground level that you have not been given enough time. Do you have any regrets that you didn’t get enough time before the elections?
People are saying I got less time and even I say that. The people of Uttarakhand know that I used my strength and energy (to work for the state). Keeping that in mind, the people will give us the next five years.

Aakash Joshi: The way Hinduism was practised in Uttarakhand is different from other states. There is a complaint that since animal slaughter was made illegal in temples, there are a few people who are doing it clandestinely and people in local politics are taking advantage of that. Do you think it was right to pass legislation on an issue which is connected to people’s faith? Do you think these older traditions (of animal slaughter) were wrong and the law had to interfere in them?
Some things don’t change because of a law — people have to understand. People are slowly incorporating good practices and older traditions are slowly ending. People are moving forward from the practices of those times.

Harikishan Sharma: You said you have been given less time; you have completed only 208 days since your term began in July. There seems to be a trend that the sitting CMs lose their seats — your two predecessors, Congress’s Harish Rawat and BJP’s BC Khanduri lost theirs. In 2012, you won Khatima with a margin of more than 5,000 votes, but in 2017, the vote margin reduced to around 2,700. Will your constituency be a challenge for you this time?
There’s no challenge. Every election is different. They were difficult elections for me but the people helped me win and blessed me. This time, the people have asked me to tour the state and have said they will take care of the poll in my constituency. Hence, I am not even thinking about my constituency. It was only on their advice that I filed my nomination from there.

Harikishan Sharma: Do you think the protests over farm laws will affect the polls in your constituency, which has many farmers and Sikhs?
I am a farmer myself. All the people of Udhamsingh Nagar are happy that I became the CM. All of them will work to form a government because they feel their brother or son has reached this place.

Avaneesh Mishra: Elections in Uttarakhand have always focused on the Army. Congress, AAP and your party are all making a lot of promises but Congress has given tickets to only three former Army men and your party has given a ticket to only one — Ganesh Joshi.
I am the son of a soldier. There are also other people, including Ganesh Joshi, who are from Army families. I am proud that I am a soldier’s son and my party has given me the opportunity to work in the role of a CM. Our party always respects soldiers, while other parties just pretend to do so. A Congress leader used to say that (recently deceased Chief of Defence staff) General (Bipin) Rawat is a galli ka gunda (street gangster). When it comes to votes, they are posting big photographs of him now. Another party used to ask soldiers for accounts of the surgical strike and incite riots. The people of Uttarakhand are well aware, very nationalistic and proud. They know what people have done.

Avaneesh Mishra: Be it BC Khanduri or TPS Rawat, whenever ex-servicemen have entered politics, they have made a mark. Don’t you think if more servicemen get tickets, it would send a positive message among the public?
In our party, we chose candidates from the names that emerged from the workers. We definitely chose those people on a priority basis.

Avaneesh Mishra: Congress and AAP are promising several things in their campaigns but the BJP’s campaign is centred around what it has done, rather than saying what it will do in the future.

The people of Uttarakhand know that it’s only the BJP that has done work and will continue to do so. The other parties are not able to fulfill their promises in other states, how will they fulfill them in Uttarakhand? They raise issues of price rise and unemployment but in states where they are in government — Punjab, Chhattisgarh, Maharashtra and Rajasthan — they have not been able to solve these issues. Then how will they be able to solve them in Uttarakhand? They were here for 10 years — did they end unemployment?
Avaneesh Mishra: But I think BJP’s electoral promises are fewer this time…We don’t want to give any false promises. The people of Uttarakhand believe in us and Modiji and we only talk about the things that we can deliver. People have seen Modi’s performance in the last five years.

Avaneesh Mishra: Many people who wanted to contest on a BJP ticket are planning to fight independently. Do you see that as your loss?
When you are in line to become a candidate and then you don’t get a ticket, you feel a little bad. But we have spoken to all of them. They are our old workers, they won’t go anywhere and will stay with the party.

Liz Mathew: Usually, the contest in Uttarakhand has been between Congress and the BJP. This time there’s a lot of buzz around AAP. In how many constituencies do you think there will be a fight between BJP and AAP? How do you look at the emergence of AAP?
We won’t have a fight with anyone, the election will be one-sided. Our slogan this time is “Ab ki baar, 60 paar.” Now your survey is showing 45-50, but till the election day we will reach 60. The blessings of the people of Uttarakhand are with us and with Modiji.

Harikishan Sharma: Going into the elections, what do you think will work in your favour and what will go against you?
We have people’s blessings and they know we have fulfilled our promises. These are the factors that will favour us. The six months or so that the people of Uttarakhand, my leadership, PM Modi, the party’s national chairman and the high command gave me, I have tried to give my 100 per cent. I have devoted every moment to it. There are no factors against us. Everyone is saying that I got less time, so I am requesting for more time so that I can work more.

Shubhajit Roy: It seems that you are projecting the work that you have done in the last six-seven months while you’ve not highlighted the work of the previous two chief ministers from your party.

I talk about the six months because I was working more and taking more decisions. People before me have also done good work. The vehicle has started moving, only the driver has changed. I am the last driver who has to take it to the station and, hence, I can talk more about the time I have driven the vehicle.

Shubhajit Roy: There’s a lot of support among people for you. Who do you give this credit to? To the three previous CMs, Modi, Amit Shah or to Yati Narsinghanand?
Definitely, it is Modiji. Any poll that happens today cannot happen without him because of the work he has done for the poor, the common man and people at the lowest rung of society. The work Modiji has done for aviation, rail, road, giving free COVID-19 vaccines, or bringing in Ayushman Bharat Yojana, Swachh Bharat, Garib Kalyan Anna Yojana, Ujjwala Yojana, and several other schemes, no one else has. That’s why I want to give credit only to Modiji.

Devyani Onial: Do you think so many big infrastructure projects — widening of highways, the Char Dham corridor — in an ecologically fragile state such as Uttarakhand may have short-term benefits but can do harm in the long run?

Roads are necessary to travel from one part of the hills to another.

How will development take place or tourists come to the state if there are no roads? How will pilgrims come?
Our state is centred around tourism, pilgrimage and power. But going forward, we will take care of our ecology and our economy. We also have to move towards atma nirbharata (self-reliance). We have done a lot of homework on this.